Hey guys,

I don't want to start a flame war, but I've begun to notice something in the way S. Asians are described in hyphen (and in other APA spaces).

Case in point: Why is Anchal referred to as a "South Asian" but Gina is simply "Asian?" Why can't desis just be called "asians" just as east asians are called? Do we really have to constantly remind people that desis are asians, too? Or is hyphen just not there yet?

Thanks for bringing this up.

At Hyphen, our definition of Asian American includes South Asians. But it seems that not everyone’s definition does. And that a lot of South Asians don't identify as Asian American, but as Desis. This brings up the bigger issue of pan Asian Americanism. As much as I’d like to say “Asian American” and have everyone around me understand that this includes Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Pakistani, Thai, Koreans, Filipinos, etc etc etc, this isn’t the case. Many AA orgs are still dominated by East Asians (especially Chinese). And many pan AA orgs ignore desi issues.

So in a way, yes, I do feel that we sometimes have to remind people that Desis are Asian Americans too, just to be perfectly clear about it.

In this particular example of Gina, I referred to her as Asian because I was paraphrasing her. She refers to herself as Asian on the show and says she wants to represent Asian women.

I’m not trying to make an excuse. I’m guilty as charged. I’ll admit if I see a yellow person on TV, I think “Asian.” If I see a brown Asian on TV, I think “South Asian.” Partly that is because brown people appear in movies and TV even less than yellow people. I hardly ever see any Desis on TV, so I want to point out not only that this person Asian (wow!), but that this person is South Asian (double wow!)

Think its hard being desi or south asian...trying being central asian, whens the last time you've seen an Uzbek model?

A lot of interesting things came up on the show;

Apparently Anchal showed up to casting wearing blue contacts. When Tyra questioned her, Anchal said something like "in India, lighter eyes are considered more beautiful"

They told her to take them off and at the end Tyra & Co. were telling her "how it's better embrace who you are..." blah blah blah

The interesting thing was how Tyra referred to one of the judges, Nigel, as "half-Indian" but I just read on another forum that he is actually half-Sri-Lankan. Hmm, was that a slip up on Tyra's part? (Side note- Nigel is also married to a hapa model, I think she is half Chinese)

Back to the issue of "Desi" versus "Asian", I have noticed that usage of the term Desi is more likely to occur in the US, whereas in the UK, South Asian people tend to just call themselves Asian. I have to say that I don't call South Asian people "Asian". It doesn't feel the same. It's like calling people from Russia "Asian" too. Yes, our ancestors are all from the same continent, but is it the same? Does that mean that East Asians have cornered the market on the term "Asian"? I don't know, but like Melissa said, most South Asian folks in the US don't even call themselves Asian...

I'm South Asian and identify as Asian American and Desi. I think it is important that we try and work ourselves into the Asian American community, but it is also important to maintain our differences.

Also, I applaud Melissa on being so up on her ANTP. Wow, I never knew. (chuckle.)

Taking an anthropological view at the South Asian vs East Asian debate, while not particularly relevant to Asian Americans, does show a great amount of cultural similarity. India and China both exude cultural influences over each other and transition zones are common of extremely similiar cultures. Just take for instance Tibet in China or Sikkim in India. Then there is the intire issue of southeast asia, which is basically a huge transition zone due to expansist cultures from India and China. Historically Indonesians and Khmer were hindu, then buddist (Hinayana). No-one doubts them being asian (in whatever the preconcieved notion of asianess is america is). Regardless to whether or not all divisions of people are preconcived it seems intuitive that due to this history of blending and merging of cultures, both south asians and east asians should participate in the greater idea of asianness.

hi melissa, i appreciate your clarification. i, too, cringe when I hear other desis talking about "asians" when they're actually referring to east asians. I find it very annoying.

and props to craig for bringing up cultural similarities. i'd like to add that people often forget about the cultural influence that India has had over east and southeast asia, in terms of buddhism, curry, language, clothing, and even classical dance (the last three more so in s.e. asia).

Should we say gina is the stereotypical asian girl that dates *only* white men?

Should we say gina is the stereotypical asian girl that dates *only* white men?

Anchal would probably last longer. She can at least pass for an African American!

Anchal has the best chance of an Asian girl winning ANTM since April.
Everyone keeps saying how stunning she is. And that body is OFF THE HOOK.
Sorry, I'm a guy.
And just as important, she takes no crap from anyone (unlike Gina).
I like the way she was the only one with the balls enough to confront Monique... who was hogging the telephone.

In response to the south asian post re: Desis.

Desi=South Asian..to just refer to Desi as asian wouldn't be true in its entirety. Yes, desis are asian, but the very meaning(and ONE of its purposes)of the word is to specifically make note of the difference.

Taking a comparitive linguistic approach to your comment lolo, one finds a few errors.

In common usage...
Desi is more of a cultural word for high caste indians. Have you ever heard a tamil descended dalit refer to themself as desi? or for that matter how about any nepalese, afaganis, pakistanis, sri lankens, or bangladeshis refer to themselves that way?

So all in all Desi does not mean South Asian. The word is wrapped in layers of nationalism and class.

Craig

I think there is a misinterpretation of the word Desi - Desi means someone who is from the old country - or "Des/Desh".
..and I know atleast Pakistanis,Bangladeshis and Indians refer to themselves as Desis - not sure of the the others ..
Desi has no class connotations. I think you are confusing with the word "Brahmin".

-Rob

I meant that indians of a higher caste distinction use the word desi more often than those of low caste, the varna system may be dead on paper but in reality it is still in existence, I never meant to infer that desi is a part of varna.

Dark skin desis are hot.

Whatever you want to call Anchal... South Asian, Indian, Desi, Asian... whatever... this girl is HOT.
And she won the MOST POPULAR Cover Girl voting for the second week in a row.

I think she looks weird... and really good at the same. I don't know how to explain it.

i have friends who are from, tamil, karnataka, andhra pradesh, punjab, rajasthan we all call ourselves desi, you've got interpretation completely wrong

I am only looking at the linguistic phenomenon of the term desi from a post-diaspora persepective with attention paid to class and nationality, true I am speaking from a fuzzy-logic perspective, and basing it on my own, monographic (vs post-modern multigraphic) accounts of usage. That aside, I still hold by my statement that the usage of desi from (proto-indoeurpean desha) is used in the american context (possibly in midwestern regional vernacular) to signify (on a class/nationality) basis, upwardly mobile young people from the region of subcontinent today known as India (vs divide-and-conquer separated Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh).

It is true, since I am using fuzzy-logic , that on an individual basis group identification my vary, yet on the level of the mean, my statment still has merit.

anchal seemed like a wilting flower at first, but i'm glad it was her who went into the phone booth and told that uber-selfish monique to get the hell off the phone. she stood her for herself (and everyone else in the house.) hell yeah. apparently she cries on this week's show though. this show is all about making women cry. kind of sick. what's up with that tyra?

and hey, gina didn't fulfill one of hte most well-known asian stereotypes. girl WAS NOT smart.

Lala- I think you're right when you say Anchal is wierd looking but there's definetely something there. Well, for her sake, I hope she goes far in this show. I stopped watching a while ago. Tyra seems as fake as her extensions or weave or whatever...I'm beginning to really hate that girl. Anyhow, as for the desi and asian, south-asian thing...why is it even a debate? We're all Asian Americans and we all have stakes in building our community's presence in the US. I hate the distinctions, the lines and boundaries. It may sound really cliche, but I wish people would just stop seeing the differences and figure out that at the end of the day, we're all minorities that need to stick together. I guess we're all guilty of differentiating ourselves from each other by using these terms; but it's time to stop all that. We need to freakin figure out how we can get more representation in our government; how our generation and those to come can become an integral part of this country; how to eliminate all the stupid and degrating stereotypes.

Sorry for the rant, but we're all citizens of this world at the end of the day.

I agree totally dee, that was actually my intent in exploring the way that desi is used, to show that it is both a uniter and a seporator. Moreover, to show that most group demarcations are not without heeping doses of class, ethnic, and gender biases.

Anchal is really beautiful - and she does have a beautiful body. I was so irritated when one of the judges said her body isn't that of a model. She has an absolutely stunning body!; by far the best one there.

Being a South Asian woman myself, I really, REALLY hope Anchal wins. I would love to see a South Asian win ANTP.

sorry, I meant ANTM :)

Im indian,
and i personally think dear anchal, aint that gorgeous.
70% of the worlds indian girls look better than her.
tyra is nuts saying shes got scary beauty.

i agree!

if you can you change the things that you say at the limination seramonee please

she has a nice body I'm not sure about her face..but what can i say i am definitely not as beautiful as her..she has a good chance of winning because she is Indian...i am Indian too no racism here I'm just saying judges always look for something different..not always the blonde pretty white girls...

no, 70 percent of indian girls are not prettier than her

anchal i think is beautiful. she does not think shes attractive tho but thats crazy. I feel the same way as her and wished she wouldve won bcause me and her are both alike except shes gorgeus and well im not.

just..
so so looking korean on subway train girl look better than gina at the a.n.t.model.
just feel pity people look that program think k girl look ugly and stupid like her.

Weird, I was noticing that a little while ago, too. South East Asian is Asian, too, but it seems like nobody uses the "NESW" prefaces with other people who are East Asian. Here's my site about all cute Asian girls from everywhere.
http://asiangirlcuteness.blogspot.com/

googd video

I am an Asian from London, but I am Pakistani and I would call myself Asian. In England we call ourselves Asians and Oriental people called after the country they come from. I suppose it's because in America we're the minority, where East Asians are here. 'Desi' means countrymen. It is a word in Hindi and Urdu, not bangladeshi or sri lankan. I think it is ignorant to pigeon-hole us all together.

i totally agree wit priya. i kno a whole bunch of indian girls prettier and more beautiful than anchal. i'm indian and in my new school some people have said ive looked like anchal. to me that is so not true. i feel that they just say that since im indian, and they don't see that many pretty indian girls. there are 2% of the people in my school are asian. ONLY 2%. theres not that much diversity and hell yea thers racism.

Why are Asians on America's Next Top Model anyway? Where are the real American?!!

I Feel the same. Its like a bomb exploded and now Asians are everywhere.

"Its like a bomb exploded and now Asians are everywhere" -- dude, I guess you don't get out much.

dude ok.... i rlly dont think that anchal is that great looking..... im indian and ppl r like omg anchal is sooo preety and that i look like her.
and i agree with sonia that ppl dont see a lot of preety indian girls.... i guess ppl dont kno where to look ;)

There is nothing at all wrong with looking like Anchal. She is pretty.

Wow, the 5th and 6th comment above me is extrememly racist. What do you qualify as an AMERICAN? White skinned?

I would just like to say I recently tried out for antm cycle ten in indianapolis and I did not see really any asian girls, just mainly african amrerican, white, and maybe two hispanic/latin american girls. It was strange to tell some of these girls i was asian when in fact they thought i was hispanic or brazilian even. I just think asian girls need to become more of a fashion icon in the modeling industry...I mean we have tyra, giselle, twiggy...what asian girl will be next?

well first there should not be any asians.... why? because the USA has so few of them. if the populations is 3% asian that means every 6 shows they should have one. that is 100% right and fair. second is asian are not tall enough to be high fashion models, are other races. its not about diversity its about choosing the right person for the job. no bending the rules to make asians feel good. models are tall as it should be. they look the best in clothes. its not about making other races feel special if they are not special. grow up and stop focusing on your race, your all racist who do that. keep the bloodlines pure and stick to you own kind. diversity is bad for everyone.

well first there should not be any asians.... why? because the USA has so few of them. if the populations is 3% asian that means every 6 shows they should have one. that is 100% right and fair. second is asian are not tall enough to be high fashion models, are other races. its not about diversity its about choosing the right person for the job. no bending the rules to make asians feel good. models are tall as it should be. they look the best in clothes. its not about making other races feel special if they are not special. grow up and stop focusing on your race, your all racist who do that. keep the bloodlines pure and stick to you own kind. diversity is bad for everyone.

AND YES THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE WHITES..... AND HAVE BEEN FOR 100S OF YEAR. THE RECENT EMIGRANTS TO THE USA, IE ASIANS ARE REPRESENTORY OF THE FIRST AMERICANS NOR THE CURRENT AMERICA. GET OVER AND STOP YOUR RACISM AGAINST WHITES. YOU FREAKS ARE ALL FOCUSED ON RACE ALL THE TIME, YOU WEAR IT LIKE A BADGE OF HONOR AND UNFOUNDE PRIDE IN IT. IF ANYONE SHOULD BE BRAGGING AND PRIDEFUL IT SHOULD BE THE WHITE, THEY INVENTED EVERYTHING. FUNNY YOU NEVER SEE WHITES PRIDEFUL ABOUT THIER RACE OR SITES DEVOTED TO THIER HERITAGE.... IF THEY DID YOU FREAKS WOULD PUT THE RACIST LABEL ON THEM. YOU PEOPLE ARE THE TRUE RACIST. YOUR SO AFRAID YOU WILL NOT BE GOOD ENOUGH OR CONSIDERED ENOUGH YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO YOUR HOMELAND AND QUIT TRYING TO MAKE WHITE AMERICA BOW TO YOU. GO BACK TO ASIAN TOWN IF WHAT TO FIT IN AND EVERYTHING ABOUT YOUR CULTURE. YOUR COMPLETELY WRONG AND SELFISH. ITS A GOOD THING WONDERFUL GOOD AMERICANS DONT COMPLAIN AND DO WHAT DO, YOU WOULD OF BEEN DEPORT BY NOW.

I'm sorry to see such disgusting, hurtful, and xenophobic comments.

"its not about diversity its about choosing the right person for the job. no bending the rules to make asians feel good."

Who says that there are set rules in fashion that dictate the perfect race/height/weight for the job? It's all about money - the people who control what you see try to figure out what most people want to see so that they can sell their product. Unfortunately, it seems that most people want to see unrealisticly tall, skinny, and beautiful people.

"keep the bloodlines pure and stick to you own kind. diversity is bad for everyone."

If that is not a racist comment, then I don't know what is.

IF ANYONE SHOULD BE BRAGGING AND PRIDEFUL IT SHOULD BE THE WHITE, THEY INVENTED EVERYTHING."

Really? Everything? News flash to me.

"FUNNY YOU NEVER SEE WHITES PRIDEFUL ABOUT THIER RACE"

Then what are you doing right now?

no

I always thought it was so ridiculous the way the judges told April to embrace her Asian side more. Me being half Asian as well allows me to understand her dilemma. One cannot simply choose a side to who they are. And because of that they said she had an identity crisis? I think not. I believe she was a strong person for standing her ground on her mixed ethnicity...

Maybe all the Asians should go back to Asia. And then I hope all the blacks go back to Africa seeing that whites brought us here against our will. And then finally once we are gone. I hope the whites go back to Europe because these lands belong to the N.Americans. Oh and while the white people are leaving N.America they should leave Australia which they infected, S. America, and Africa. I hope somehow all the whites can crowd back onto their imaginary continent,Europe, and enjoy just white people. After all we people of color didn't intergrate/impose our ideas on the world your kind did. And now that everyone else wants to be recogonized as beautiful and brillant you see this as racist. No I see it as empowerment you see for the past 500 years white people have disrespected every race on the planet. I don't understand white people this is an Asian site about Asian people encouraging Asians go to hell if you think they should hang pictures in their houses of a white Jesus.

Dear Laine:

Please learn to spell. Comments that demonstrate mastery of verb tenses and punctuation reflect better on your people.

Best,
Sera

ALL IM SAYING IS ASIAN WOMEN ARE MORE SMART, MORE DEICATED AND MUCH MORE PRETTIER THEN WHITE PEOPLE IN AMERICA. WHITE PEOPLE ARE SO BASIC LOOKING ONLY LIKE 2% ARE PRETTY, ASIAN WOMEN HAVE MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATION THATS WHY IM SEARCHING FOR ONE EVEN THOUGH I LIVE IN A WHITE AREA .

Everyone wants to be an American. For the most part, it does not matter where you come from, people will see you as an Asian (Alien) first and always question your so called Americaness. Thats if you are not White, or Black. Anchal is dark and beautiful, which appears to be a problem with a few selective bloggers that believes the Euroasian or European look is the standard of beauty for all models emulate. Anchal can be my model anytime